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plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us! visit xfinitymobile.com today. breaking news that is minute, donald trump's lawyers just filed a brief we were discussing, with andrew wiseman, to justify the bond that he has filed, in his $175 million judgment that he is appealing in that civil case in new york. we'll have more reporting on that tomorrow, that is to make last word, the 11th hour starts right now. tonight, the trial begins. donald trump has used his megaphone to attack everything about this case. now he is stuck in the one place where he cannot hold court. we will explain why stoma

trumps media stock could keep dropping and still land him a cool billion dollars. and, ohio democratic senator sherrod brown joins to discuss his race against a trebek election denier and what it means for control of the senate senate as the 11th hour gets underway on this monday night. . good evening, i am stephanie ruhle, live from 30 rock, we are now 204 days away from the election. today, the likely republican residential nominee, who also happens to be the former president, faced his first day on trial. he is the first american president to be tried in court on criminal charges. in case anyone needs reminding what all this is about, this is a case stemming from hush money payments made to stephanie clifford, who goes by the screen name stormy daniels ahead of the 2060 election. today begin with decision from the judge about what evidence would be allowed in, then it's

all about choosing the people who would decide trumps fate in this case. my colleague laura jarrett has the latest. >> reporter: those who will soon sit in judgment of the former president, the first to ever face the criminal trial. 200 people, summoned to the courthouse today, questioned about their backgrounds, media preferences, and views on mr. trump, in deep blue manhattan, many jurors swiftly dismissed, for setting the cannot be impartial. the judge driving home the stakes of the and president of moment for the unprecedented gop nominee, warning mr. trump today, if he fails to show up, he risks arrest. mr. trump has pleaded not guilty to the 34 accounts of falsifying business records. a low-level felony, but the story prosecutors seek to tell is more sordid and sweeping, previewing the central theme today of a presidential campaign rocked by the release of the infamous access hollywood tape, fueling mr. trump's determination,

prosecutors telling, to buy the silence of stormy daniels, allegedly directing michael palin to pay her $130,000 so that she would not go public, saying she had sex with mr. trump, something that he maintains never happened. the former president later reimbursing cohen through a series of checks, allegedly doctoring his company's internal records to cover it all up. >> that payment mystify damaging information from the voting public. the participants scheme was illegal. >> reporter: the judge ruled that prosecutors cannot play the access hollywood tape at trial, but can introduce what he said. mr. trump's team is excited to highlight how the previous da and federal prosecutors declined to press charges in this case. >> this trial is expected to last 6 to 8 weeks and remember, donald trump is also facing three other criminal cases in washington, d.c., georgia, and florida, with that, with get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel. we had to bring in a great one,

because this is quite the day. legal analyst kristi greenberg is a former federal prosecutor and former fdny criminal division deputy chief hugo lowell is here, lytic litigations report of a "the guardian." he was in the court yesterday, evan mcmorris santoro is here today, covering national politics of the allbritton journalism institute and former u.s. attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. hugo, since you were in the room, what stuck out to you? >> we should clarify and say that we were separate in the room, but that we were still there. it was very clear to me that trump will have a hard time sitting there and playing by the rules on a criminal trial, without having outbursts. today he was falling asleep, but without having outburst and saying things that could hurt him down the line, as he has in

his previous cases, >> i got to talk about the jurors. kristi, you and joyce have interviewed hundreds if not thousands of jurors, what you make of the process so far? i kept thinking, all these people in manhattan called for jury duty today, so many had to be thinking, holy cow, and my about to get on the trump trial? >> one thing that was interesting was what was going on outside. the jurors were all outside for quite some time, waiting to get into the building, and as they are doing that, right across the street from them is a pro trump rally essentially, people waving their flags and being really vocal, you could see the jurors, all very clearly identified holding their slips and watching this. >> are they hiding their faces? they weren't. >> they were right by the press, some of the press were actually interviewing some of them, but you could see, it was uncomfortable, the first thought in my mind is, can we expedite getting them into the building so that they are not exposed to all this? this was not a great way to

start, i don't think. but, then, of the 96, that they called initially, more than 50 said we cannot be fair and impartial. that is highly unusual, maybe not for such a high-profile case like this, but generally speaking, cases usually people have opinions about things, they do say and the judge kind of shames them to say, sometimes, can you just put that aside and base it on the evidence you are going to hear? usually jurors will say we think we can unless there being a real pain but that is not what happened here. >> i want to share what one of our colleagues, charles coleman, former prosecutor said, today. he raised this issue about potential jurors, it is worrisome. what's this. >> we could end up with a stealth juror, someone who goes in with their mind already made up, but act as though they can be fair and impartial, they live during the course of voir dire, they will tell the court and

the other attorneys, i can be fair and impartial, so that they can get on the jury, >> joyce, how do you deal with a possibility of a stealth juror? that may not be common in your average case, but there is nothing average about this. >> it's more common than you would think. there is this concept of jury nullification, and jurors who will not vote to convict in cases because of principle is that they hold, there is actually a movement for during allocation. so the thing about picking a jury is that it is more art than science. and someone who has struck 20 or 30 or 40 juries will get a good sense of what they're looking for. in state court and some federal courthouses, mine was one of them, prosecutors are committed to conducting the questioning of jurors, so you can develop a bit of a rapport, and if in answer, for instance, doesn't seem right, you can keep pressing.

often times, i would like to ask jurors what bumper stickers they had on their cars. those responses would be very illuminating. and so, by going through the process you are able to get a good picture of who the jurors are and whether they are being truthful and honest, when they say they are willing to set aside what knowledge they come to the courtroom with, what biases they may have and decide the case purely on the evidence in the courtroom. >> and are they willing to tell you what bumper stickers are. kristi, can we go back to something you just said? we're talking about people who said they are biased, they can't do it, they don't think they can honestly serve on this jury. i actually get that. but in this case, people who say they can serve, people who want to, couldn't that be a red flag? >> that is why you have 42 questions. this is a very detailed questionnaire and it allows both sides to really try to get to know the people, their backgrounds, their experiences, and most importantly, their opinions and beliefs that might

affect how they are going to view this case. so, there are a lot of questions here about donald trump. and again, what charles mentioned about people lying? that is a real concern, as you would have to be living under a rock not to have a strong opinion about donald trump, in one way or another. but you know, how strong is it? are you attending rallies? are you volunteering for his campaign? are you doing things that are more than just casting a vote, for example. and again, i think, given all the rhetoric in this case, all the things that donald trump has said, bashing the judge and the da, the question is, based on anything you have heard in the media, can you really put aside that information, and decide whether or not he's being treated fairly and go along with the case? >> okay. we are not going to debate whether there is a two-tiered system, he is getting super special treatment. there are no cameras in the courtroom but he is talking to the cameras outside, he is posting and social media all day and every day in the

courtroom, gag order or not, he is not going to stop. he knows he is not going to rikers island. nothing to stop him from all the noise and the chaos. if you are the prosecutors or the judge, what do you do? >> this is the constant tension the whole trial will be about, right? we are not used to this happening very often. wednesday prosecutor step up to try to get trump prosecuted on some of these gag orders in place, you know, did he cross a line, what are they going to do as he crosses a line, to say something about this juror situation. >> you like to volunteer? >> for sure, could you six weeks. i want to say, we talk about stealth jurors, people who want to be on the case, we should give it up for the people who actually show up and try to do their duty in this case because talking with those people outside who were chanting, the world's eyes are on this and we know that one thing that happens with this president, and this movement is that if you cross

it, you get put on blast but these are people who could be risking a lot to try to keep the justice system going. so while we are talking about what might happen to get them on the case, those who are actually to serve on this jury are pretty brave. >> that is a great point. trump is making all the noise and all the chaos he possibly can. that is his jam. but once this trial is underway, and these witnesses are sworn to testify under oath, is that when this thing gets real? will trump be able to keep lying on the courthouse steps? >> he may be lying on the courthouse steps but he left it there in mind two things. the lies of to stop there, because the moment he is in a courtroom he will have to be a criminal defendant and act like one or else he will be whipped around by the judge, and he is also under this gag order that came up today, where the prosecution was saying, you know, even while he was in the courtroom, he was posting stuff on true social that ran up

against the edge of the gag order, and many were recommended he be held in contempt, $3000 is not much for trump at this point but i think it sets the tone. >> political enthusiast democrats have been waiting for this day, right? they said finally, the trial is to begin, things are going to happen, or people weighing that, just because trump is now sitting for this trial it does not mean that he will be convicted? i mean, the prosecution has a pretty high bar, and if trump does -- if it is a mistrial, a hung jury, the political mojo that he is going to get out of this, even the air cover, that he will give, the people realize that just because the trial is happening and all this will be exposed, so much of the ugly has already been? >>'s team has already been spinning this thing in all different kinds of directions. it's a witchhunt, they're coming to get me, it's trying to delay me from campaigning on purpose, all these things are

being said to try to build the idea that no matter what happens, he can say he one but i will say this, i spoke with a lot of democrats at the beginning of this campaign cycle, back in december when we were staring down this year full of court cases for trump, and they said look, we will just sit back and let this thing play out. if you are the guy who is not in court, you are much happier than if you are the guy in court but that's all i know from the people i spoke with. >> that's a fair point. there were a lot of people making the point, and you made it earlier, that trump looked pretty miserable in court today, and somebody else was having a bad day. trumps social media company. dj t stock took another nosedive today in the market, after they announced possible millions of shares being sold. but guess who was going to get a lot of that stock? donald trump himself. i want you to listen, because this is not bad news for him. it is fantastic news. when all is said and done, donald trump could end up with

65% of all of the shares in this company. so sure, you might think oh my god, he's getting crushed, but he is not. every single share, every dollar is found money. this is all a trick. the trick is to get as many shares as he can, and he is doing that, and they converted to cash or a loan, before people lose interest in this stock and the party ends. i just keep hearing every day, people laughing at him, laughing as the stock falls, saying he is losing his shirt, his stake was worth 5 billion, now it's only worth 2 billion, but it is still worth 2 billion. he did not have to spend one single dollar to get it, he is getting more shares, and in the not so distant future, he could get a $1 billion payout and it will be legal >> this is why i come on your show to the studio, i speak with people work with, what is this story about the shares mean? and people say i know, it

sounds bad i guess. but you really know what is going on? you know the guy needs money, a lot of money has to come up for the state of new york, he needs it, you're telling me it looks good to have a stock if you can get out before thanks i guess it makes sense, but, again, now i feel better about my own stock tips >> it is stunning that he is in this position, and here we are, the company behind the $175 million bond, that guy in l.a. giving trump this money for the bond last week, the deadline was tonight for the paperwork, that he didn't get in last night, he still hasn't -- he still hasn't gotten the paperwork through, but even if he doesn't, hasn't trump already won? what he needed was time and he just got it. >> i mean, i guess we will see. but, it is interesting. the fact that that paperwork isn't in, it means there are no good answers to the questions

that the new york ag is asking about whether or not this company is actually liquid, whether or not they are in a position to actually be stable enough to front him this money. otherwise, this should have been a pretty straightforward filing. the fact that we haven't seen it is another red flag. >> things are very real now in this trump campaign date and originals. we were talking about it for months, he's in a criminal court, people should think about what exactly this moment is, and what a big change it is in this election, from back in the primaries when this was all kind of potential. now it is all happening, and we can see a lot of bad news piling up for donald trump today. >> when things start getting polite and start getting real, it is bad news however, trump allies and trump himself keep talking about this two-tiered justice system but if you actually look at it, he has not faced any consequences, not from mueller, not from the two impeachments, even as people

around him have gone to prison for stuff that has happened associated with him, and now he could actually get $1 billion? how is this man not looked at, as anything other than the luckiest human out there? >> i think in some ways that is how has been looked at up until now. and right now, we are at the point where we find out if he continues. might get a mistrial? my to get a hung jury here? for several weeks down the road, will donald trump finally be a convicted felon? people have very different views about this case, but in my view, this is a strong case, much of it is on paper, showing his business transactions were fraudulent. the government has said that they will be able to establish that he made fraudulent business records in order to conceal, or aid in the commission of other crimes involving campaign finance and taxes, and the government is

not bringing this case just for fun. this is not a district attorney who doesn't understand the consequences of bringing a case that is not backed up by evidence. every appearance we have seen from this immaculately prepared trial team has been that they are ready to go and ready to convict this defendant and if that happens, it will be a change in the conversation about donald trump and who he is. >> it will be a change in u.s. history. christine joyce, hugo evan, thank you all so much. when we return, his race to decide who controls the senate. ohio democratic senator sherrod brown is here to explain what his party needs to do better between now and november. and later, president biden is urging israel to avoid escalating with iran but israel has other plans. the 11th hour is just getting underway on inconsequential monday night. monday night. phone, internet. also subscriptions i forgot about. streaming, music, news sites.

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democrats are playing defense when it comes to control of the senate in november. incumbents need to hang onto the hotly contested seats in red states like montana and ohio. i am glad to welcome one of those incumbents, democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio. he is running against bernie marino. you probably haven't heard of him, he is a business guy who has made election to nihilism a focus of his campaign. senator, i am so glad you're here tonight. we know that the top issue for voters in your state and across this country is the economy, inflation is an issue., how do you make them care that the presumptive republican nominee is on trial, right now, for election interference, and he has three more on the way. things like that feel abstracts to the voters but they are the very foundation of what makes our democracy work. >> well, i focus on my job. i focus on, i know there's plenty for the hundreds to talk about, the politicians and

media people anything is one of the reasons that people don't much like washington. my focus like today, i was in toledo this morning and i did an event with two people that were paying way more for their insulin than they can afford. now, because of what we have done, bringing the cap price of insulin to $35 for month and in the future we will put a limit on out-of-pocket costs for prescription drugs and medicare. those are issues that people listen to, those issues are what people follow on and the rest for most voters, the rest is background noise. >> let's talk about that, because, the president is actually passing historic legislation when it comes to helping the average consumer in american deal with economy and the inflation, whether it is inflation, or consumer debt or drug prices, president biden is

doing a lot. how do you get the voters in your state to notice, to understand it and to give him credit for it? >> we have to do more precursor to talk about it. we are running ads right now about what we have done on the deck so that veterans exposed to those burn pits in iraq and afghanistan are getting treatments, and the three young men in ohio who passed away from an illness after exposure to that. we have passed our pension bill again named after ohio, which restored the pension to 100,000 aid workers just in my state, 1 million mostly in the midwest but we have to do more. connie and i go to the grocery store often after church on sunday, sunday early afternoon, i see people, they are not happy with represses but they understand that it is about corporate greed. every time you pay more for your food at the grocery store, you are paying for stock buybacks, you're paying for bonuses for executives, and people who know that, and our legislation empowers the ftc to crack down on deceptive practices by the food industry

to shrink the size of products in the bottles and packages and cans while the increase prices and people know there is a con game out there and they know that the economy is rigged that way, and that's why i went for stand up to those interest groups and i will continue to. >> house republicans are sending the impeachment of secretary mayorkas to the senate tomorrow. will you vote with your fellow democrats to skip the trial? >> it's a distraction. i wish the house would pass the bill dealing with our bipartisan border deal, the bipartisan deal which will essentially close off the border and keep our country safer, and deal with fentanyl way better than the house has? i wish we would pass the ukraine bill, i wish they would pay attention to the real things that matter and not the

political games, but this is the house of representatives in chaos which is always playing political games. the senate is not exactly a model of always getting things done quickly. we passed a strong bipartisan bill on ukraine, we passed -- we voted for border security, if the house would follow suit instead of playing these games, our country would be a lot safer, people -- 400 people per month.from fentanyl overdose in my state every single -- 400 people every single month. we have to deal with those issues in the house just once to keep playing games. >> the problem is that political games has become the name of the game. what do you say to those voters who say, they've border is an issue, immigration is an issue, you don't realize it was donald trump who blocked that bipartisan border deal, or they are unhappy with inflation, but donald trump has not offered any policy solutions to address , how do you get them to understand that?

>> my job isn't to get them to understand or to weigh in on presidential races. my job is to do my job, and that is working on the bill to stop those companies from deceptive practices, to work on the ukraine bill, with what is happening to their country and family members, my focus is on getting that done in the senate, getting those bills passed in the house. politics, i understand, i guess politics is what i do for a living, but my job is to get these things done and the politics really will take care of itself. is an estate for some people say -- a member of my state last november, we passed by 13 points, 50% of the vote, the people of this state voted for a constitutional amendment for the state to guarantee abortion rights. the guy you mentioned at the beginning, running against me, is not just for a nationwide abortion ban, no exceptions, even in the face of ohio passing that bill, he is still against -- he is still trying to enact an abortion ban even

overriding, that is why i asked people to come to sheridan equip brown.com, sign up to help us fight against the national abortion policy they want, digging into support of interest groups instead of taking on drug companies and wall street and the companies jacking up prices. >> senator, thank you for being here tonight. i appreciate it. when we come back, all eyes on israel as it plots its response to iran's attack over the weekend. world leaders are urging restraint, but will they listen? when the 11th hour continues.

return to the aftermath of iran's attack on israel this weekend. today, israel's war cabinet met to discuss a response. richard engel has all the details. >> reporter: 48 hours after iran attacked israel, with hundreds of drones and missiles, israel, tonight, vowing to strike back. and israeli official telling nbc news, a response could be imminent. while touring a base that was likely damaged, the only known damage in israel, the chief of staff of the israeli army, today, said -- >> i will face the consequences iran will face the consequences for its actions. we will choose our response accordingly. >> that announcement came after prime minister benjamin newton yahoo held a second war cabinet

meeting in two days. a senior israeli official telling nbc news that the cabinet agreed that a military response is needed to show deterrence, but that it should avoid provoking a regional war and be coordinated with the united states. president biden told netanyahu not to escalate further, because with u.s. help, israel shut down 99% of iran's missiles and drones. the u.s. even led a hastily organized coalition to defend israel, including jordan and the uk. iran said it is done, that the garage was it's only response to israel's deadly air strike on iran's embassy compound in syria. but, iran warns today that any israeli reprisal would be met with an immediate counterstrike. >> for more, jeremy johnson, former chief of staff at the cia and the pentagon and former editor in chief of the jerusalem post, yakov katz is here now he is now a senior

fellow at the jewish policy institute, the author of three books on the israeli motor including israel versus iran, the shadow war. i want to start with a quote that i heard earlier today, david sanger of the "new york times" called this a rubicon moment. iran has not attacked israel in the four decades since the rizzo revolution. does israel now have more latitude to attack iran directly? jeremy? >> i think israel would be justified in retaliating, and certainly there is some argument that they should, to reestablish deterrence. i think this is probably what the israeli war cabinet is debating at this hour. they want to synchronize their actions with the united states because after all, it was this u.s.-led coalition together with israel, but also impressively, together with the uk, france, and an arab country, jordan, that actually prevented any of these missiles and drones from doing damage in israel at all. and so, that defensive shield is not only impressive from a

military perspective, i don't agree have seen 300 missiles, rockets, and drones fired at a country and not a single one did any significant damage. it is also impressive from a political and strategic notion that israel has this coalition in place, to defend itself. >> yakov, you are there, what did you see this weekend? >> we saw what almost looks like -- i don't want to downplay it but it looked like a fireworks show. hundreds of objectifying through the sky. the solid was flying over the dome of the rock and al-aqsa mosque in jerusalem, it is maybe one kilometer from where i live. we heard explosions, air sirens, we were down in the bomb shelter, but i think like jeremy said, what we are facing here is a pivotal moment, and it is such, because this is a direct uranian attack against israel. you know, we have gotten used

to these attacks by proxies, hezbollah, in lebanon, hamas in gaza, the houthis, but for iran to now say we can attack israel with over 300 drones, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and expect that nothing will happen, you know why they expect nothing will happen? because until now, nothing has happened. but have been able to wreak havoc and destruction throughout the region and get away with impunity, sanction waivers and money. here is a moment where israel has to decide and sadly it has been told by the world, you stand alone. we will not support you on this but israel has to decide, does it allow this president to be created, or does it decide, we had to stop this now, because we are afraid of what will come down the road in the future? >> what options does israel have, jeremy? >> they can engage in air strikes against iranian military targets and they can do so in a way that it doesn't provoke a wider war. look, in the past, israel has

undertaken efforts to take out the nuclear reactor in iraq and in syria, to take out some iranian nuclear capability for cyber attacks in 2010 and 2011. israel has gone on the offense, in essence, to play strong defense. iran is larger in terms of its population, it is 20 times larger in terms of its landmass, and israel is a much smaller country, so it has to play offense in the region, and keep any of those weapons out of its airspace from harming its centralized population. >> let's go back to what i think you are starting to touch on, israel's allies, including president biden, are urging restraint. do you think netanyahu will listen? >> they are in a very difficult

position and i think that we have to recognize that. we still have the war down south in gaza that has yet to be concluded. he is highly dependent on the united states for diplomatic cover and tenured supply of weapons and spare parts and that has become something highly controversial back in washington. where we are seeing a lot of people talk about adding conditions to the continued military aid to israel, so now, we can see that israel is under attack, though, from a fourth front. have been under attack from gaza, from lebanon, from yemen, now we are also under attack from iran. israel is the most threatened and attacked country today in the world, with four or five after front but they have to decide on a strategic level -- i almost compare it to going back to 2001, when the first rocket was fired at israel from gaza, imagine for a moment that israel had gone into gaza, then, and dealt with the problem at its foundation, at its core, would we have had the

october 7th massacre, 22 years later and a bit? i don't know. but, the question that we have to ask ourselves is, if we let this slide, and we don't respond, despite all of the reassurance from our allies, will we find ourselves dealing with a stronger, emboldened and potential nuclear nuclear iran one day in the future? >> jeremy, what are the risks of this conflict escalating in your opinion? >> israel has a very difficult challenge, in gaza. we still have a large number of hostages, including at least five american hostages who we believe remain alive and of course the bodies of other americans that have yet to be returned, and it has not finished off, the leadership of hamas, it has not brought justice. we have hezbollah in the north of israel, also threatening, with highly capable rocket artillery and mortar force underground force. so as yakov points off, israel has strategic challenges on its

immediate border and it will have to decide whether it wants to engage in this back-and- forth with iran, or whether it wants to rely on the method that it's been operating which is more covert, going after iranian proxies, taking out some of the leaders, through high-value targets operations in damascus and elsewhere, and i think that is the question that netanyahu will have to way and he will synchronize his efforts with president biden and the biden administration. >> before i let you leave, i have to ask about your daughter, since we last spoke, i know she is serving in the idf, how is she? >> she is doing well. she has finished idf officers training, she is now a commander of soldiers and she is like the tens of thousands of or hundreds of thousands of soldiers and reservists who still, today, six months after that hamas massacre, continue to put their lives first and on the front lines, to keep us safe and we saw the impact and

what that means sunday morning, when we had really courageous pilots and missile-defense operators, alongside our written, french, and jordanian friends, to do something that was pretty remarkable, and we should all be saluting these servicemen. >> without a doubt. thank you so much for being here both. when we return, day one of new yorkers is trump is on the books but how will it impact the campaign? we get into the politics of it all. before we go, in honor of tax day, i would like to share a tweet of note from our friend, mark cuban, where he tweeted about taxes. writing, i pay what i owe. he wrote this yesterday. tomorrow, i will wire transfer to the irs, $288 million. this country has done so much for me. i am proud to pay my taxes every single year. tag a former president that you

know who doesn't. i present that tweet without comment. we will be right back. back. shipstation saves us so much time it makes it really easy and seamless pick an order print everything you need slap the label on ito the box and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free

trumps people would like to trivialize and diminish the meaning of this trial but it is emblematic of all the others that are out there, they are all about interference and collation. they tried violence, we will see that in the dc case, fraud in the georgia case and here,

they tried it with payoffs and cooking the books. financial manipulation. that is what it is about, it is a serious case and i think the trump people would be shocked at how tuned in america is to what is going on here. >> besides being the first former president to stand trial on criminal charges, donald trump is also the first presidential candidate to campaign from the courtroom. here to discuss how this will impact voters, ron philip caskey, midas touch editor and chief former federal prosecutor and analyst matthew dowd, also a george w. bush strategist and founder of country over party, ron, i know you're eyes were glued to the television today. what are your thoughts on what went down? >> well, i thought of the three big moments were trump asking to have the day off for barron's graduation, which set off quite a firestorm in right- wing media, tonight. the judge did not deny that request, he said he will consider it, that date is still

over a month away, and then trump, falling asleep twice apparently during the trial, sleepy donna went viral throughout the day, which was interesting considering he is always using sleepy joe. the other thing was karen mcdougal saying that they were going to call karen mcdougal, a former playboy model who would testify that she had an affair with donald trump throughout melania's pregnancy with baron. i thought those were the three big ones that stood out to me. >> let's talk about how this is going to impact voters. do you think there are people out there where the verdict in this case will impact how they vote? >> yes. i think, definitely. i think it is a percentage of independence. i think democrats have decided where they are, which is, make sure donald trump is not under the oval office ever again.

by and large i think 92% of republicans have decided, independents are still iffy on this race, which is why it is roughly dead even. i would think if you take a look at my view in the polls there has been a slight sag already in donald trump support and want to get through the primary centimeters start focusing on it, there has been a slight sag to where he had to maintain a significant lead which is gone now but i think a conviction for voters, especially independents looking for signals in this race, of two people they don't like, a conviction is fundamentally different than the theory of the case up until a conviction. i think that if he gets a conviction in my view it is very tough for trump to win those voters back. >> a conviction is not guaranteed. what if he is let off? >> that is a whole another -- you could have a whole panel of legal scholars. if he is let off in this case,

i think the more fundamental problem is, is there justice in america but is blind and does not take into account whether you have money, lawyers who can hire or fame. so that is one discussion. politically, if he is let off and i think it feeds into donald trump's shtick, which is that i am being persecuted, i am being persecuted, i am being persecuted. i don't think it helps him go because i think a lot of that is baked in already with how people feel about that. but it does mean that there will not be that percentage of voters i talked about that move based on a conviction. i think it raises more questions about our legal system than it does about our political system. >> ron, let's talk about that hard-core maga crowd period they are very loud and outspoken. so, they sound big, and for his most ardent supporters, they have been saying, this is a political persecution, but think about today, donald trump has lots of supporters in the area and that was a very small crowd protesting, showing support for donald trump in downtown manhattan today.

wouldn't you say? >> it was. i paid a lot of attention to that crowd, i followed a lot of people out there, and a lot of them were from out of town. they weren't even new yorkers. the organizer of that was laura lou, she was from florida. people came in from outside the area, they still only had about 25 people there, and it was a lot of the usual crowd. several of them were selling products there, one guy was selling donald trump seemed hammocks and somebody else was selling something different, so, no, there was supposed to be this big rally outside the courthouse for trump, but there were more counter protesters against them then there were people supporting him. >> matthew, what would your advice be for the biden campaign? all eyes are justifiably on trump, the first criminal trial that we have seen from a former president and presidential candidate, the biden administration is trying to stay above the fray and not

make this political. it is about the justice system. how should they play this? >> i would stay away from any comment on the trial at all. zero comment, and basically conduct your campaign as if the trial is not going on. have the president travel, to events, to advertising, run the campaign like you would run the campaign and never enter into this discussion, because, there is much more conversation in the press and on television and all of that, that they need to weigh in on and it will be filtered through all of that anyway. i would say run your campaign, and that the courts in manhattan conduct themselves and stay as far away as you possibly can. >> matthew dowd, thank you for wrapping this up tonight. before we end this evening, a bit of other news, tonight, of course, i hope you know, the wnba draft, and we have an update on two superstars we have been talking a lot about lately. iowa's caitlin clark was, no surprise, number one draft pick

tonight, she is going to the indiana fever and lsu star forward angel reese was selected number 7 overall by the chicago sky. we know these ladies and their peers are already changing the game, and ticket prices for the indiana fever, no surprise, are already flying. fantastic news to end the night. on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow.

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